Speaker 1: 0:12

My guest this episode is Korsen Grace Meadows. She's been in the industry since she was 19 and looking very much forward to talking to her today. Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Yeah, thank you for having me. This is really cool. I think it's a cool project.

Speaker 1: 0:28

So one of the things that interests me about you is you seem like a very old soul in a young body. You used to be a beekeeper. You're very much into body and the spirit. What got you involved in being a courtesan?

Speaker 2: 0:44

It was my neighbor. This was the most on like I don't know. It was the most free I've ever felt in starting something, the easiest I've ever had in starting something. And it was kind of like everything was just, it was just easy. And it's not the idea of easy money Like it. I was.

Speaker 2: 1:12

I had a boyfriend at the time and we were living in Texas and we had this neighbor living across the street from us who was absolutely wild and she was like inviting us to parties and she was paying for our food and paying for our tickets. And one day she texted me and was like, do you want to make 400 bucks? And I was like, sure, and I go over and she goes. So there's a guy he wants to look at our feet and pay us 800 and I would give you four. And I was like, okay, let me check with my boyfriend. And he was like you know, if you don't really have to be that involved with him and it's paying rent like I don't see a problem with it if he just wants to look at your feet. So I went over and I did that with her and then afterwards I asked her. I was like what, how? How the fuck did you find this guy? You know where did this come from? And she was like oh, there's a website and she showed it to me and she's like we can get you hooked up on it, we can get you a profile Like you. Just, it's easy, easy money. And I was like I don't know about that, cause I was.

Speaker 2: 2:23

I think I was like 18. I was 18 at the time and the boyfriend that I had I was like I don't know if this is really like. You know what I want to do right now in my life. So I went back and had the money and I thought about it and then I let it go and when we moved back to California, me and him, we started to part ways and I remembered the website that she showed me and how easy it was and I was like, okay, I don't have anything holding me back now. And so I started to do it at 19 when we came back to California and it was so freeing.

Speaker 2: 2:54

I've tried to work other jobs and I was able to hold other jobs for a long time, but but like I was able to really just be myself and I liked the feeling of the no strings attached thing with the money.

Speaker 2: 3:11

There's no clocking in or clocking out.

Speaker 2: 3:14

I was just wild and free and like as much of a secret as the men who visited me were like this was a a thing that was mine, like it was my own world that nobody else was a part of and you know, I could just do whatever I wanted and like be who I was, and it was just great, it was fun, so I kept rolling with it and it it's been the most enlightening thing in my life and it was just great, it was fun, so I kept rolling with it and it it's been the most enlightening thing in my life, and it didn't start off that way, like I think it was the last two and a half to three years where it became a deeper journey for me, because I had no idea that I was perpetrating or not perpetrating, perpetuating old patterns of thinking that began when I was really young, ways of thinking and ways of being and acting in the world, and a piece of me was not just reliving that through sex work but discovering those parts of myself through sex work.

Speaker 2: 4:15

And so, yeah, the last three years has, when it's, become a spiritual journey, but everything before that before, before sex work or not before sex work, but before the past three years was just kind of throwing myself to the wind and seeing where it took me and like that that was enough for me. And even now still I throw myself to the wind into different adventures and see where it takes me. But yeah, that was the beginnings for me to the wind into different adventures and see where it takes me.

Speaker 1: 4:38

But yeah, that was the beginnings for me. Now, feet is one thing, but going from feet to being more sexual, how was that? I mean you were nervous about doing the feet at first. What was it like going from the feet to the sexual, and was there a thinking process or was it just a natural evolution to what you were enjoying and finding liberating?

Speaker 2: 4:56

it was so easy for me to just be like, okay, you want to fuck, let's fuck. Like I didn't. I had zero, like zero gates up about it. Like I, I didn't have the moral structure that people struggle with. I was not scared at all like most people should have a little bit of fear of like meeting random dudes in hotels. Like at first I had somebody who I was close to who would like follow me on the dates. But like literally after the second date I was like I don't need, I'm good. I was like my vibe is enough. Like I know I'll never be in a dangerous situation. I know, like what I want to do, what I don't want to do, and I've luckily that's been the pattern for me. It was just an easy, easy jump to answer your question plainly, like it was just, it was whatever to me Now you've had.

Speaker 1: 5:45

I mean, you mentioned that you were in a relationship early on, when it first started. You guys eventually broke up. Are you able now, given the work that you've done and how long you've been in it, are you able to have a more conventional relationship? Is that something that's doable in this industry, or is it you're sacrificing one for the other?

Speaker 2: 6:19

dating. In the beginning I didn't have like a ton of interest in dating and I was actually more excited about almost like living, living this life. So my mind wasn't even on dating really. But I was like, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And like in the beginning, I'd be like, oh okay, if I meet somebody and I feel that full spark of like I want to try dating you and it's a mutual thing. And if they ask me not to do this work while we're dating, I would go and pick up a regular job.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Didn't last very long because at that point I was pretty conditioned to like hating working in a regular environment. It was like torture to me and it was like not torture. That's really dramatic, but it just was not. It was not easy for me and I my personality after, after realizing how free I could be, my personality in these regular settings was not digestible. I couldn't get routine down. It was so hard for for me and so it wasn't. It didn't make for a happy situation but I did it because I was like well, I want to. I want to hold space and value for these relationships that I find myself in, especially if they're requesting that this isn't what I do. Like I can, I can feel that that desire from a man to have a closed container with their woman and so, like I was always respectful of that. And there was like a couple of people who I was just so in love with. I'm like, oh my god, I would marry you, I'd give you everything, I give you the best head of your life for the rest of your life, like I love you. You know what I mean. Experiencing back then was like totally driven by a lot of unconscious needs and behaviors, like like many of us are, and and we find ourselves in these relationship dynamics that allow us to act that out with each other and we don't even know it. So like I think it was when I was 24 that I had one of the bigger heartbreaks of my life and I had been processing that for a year and a half and at some point I just realized cause I had flings in between, I had my relationships, I had flings, I had one night stands and then I had my work. So I was able to live this like big romantic, like swinging beautiful dance, even with my work, and I just navigated it as it naturally came up like there were.

Speaker 2: 8:40

At one point there was like three guys that I was dating. I didn't even think about the fact that I was like dating them technically but they lived in different parts of California and like we would just go months without seeing each other and then we would randomly connect one day over text and she's like oh, I want to see you today, or like I want to see you next week, so then I would make the drive to go see them. We'd spend like a beautiful three days together or a beautiful one week together. Pure romance, you know, pure, pure container. Going bike rides together. We go to the beach together. I remember one guy was sitting on the back of his bike, the wind was blowing through my hair and it's pretty dry, so we were like going through town, it was so, and these it was so romantic and these dragon flights came up and they were flying with us. It was pure, just so pure, pure romance. And um, where's it going with that? Oh, yeah, so then.

Speaker 2: 9:24

So then, in between the romance and the flings, there was a lot of energy being worked out through relationships, through the whatevers, through the one night stands, and over the last year and a half, I started to look at the ways that I was leading those relationships and the ways that I was being treated like, truly, truly treated to its core, and I saw that a lot of the time I wasn't being actually valued in the relationship, that it was more of an unconscious energy cycle.

Speaker 2: 10:06

And now the only time that I see myself really feeding somebody or feeding an energy is when it is very, very obvious that they're actively pursuing me. For me, if they're also in a clearer and purer state, like I can't, I can't entertain it anymore unless it's obvious, like, like, like it's clear, you know. And so I don't think I've even had sex with anybody outside of work for almost a year now. There was like one guy who I hooked up with a while back, but he did something that just pissed me off so much that I have not been able to entertain anybody else. Like I have zero room or zero energy for normies for normal people these days, because everybody is caught up in their own unconscious shit.

Speaker 1: 10:57

No, I like pizza. I, if I worked at a pizza company all day long and kept making pizza, I probably wouldn't like pizza. You know you had. You mentioned that you had sex about a year ago with someone. What is that like? Is that different? Are you able to Like? Are you able to? I mean, you're a young woman. You have needs, you know. When you masturbate or when you have sex, is that something that you can differentiate from the work that you do to? This is enjoyment for me. I'm compartmentalizing it. The sex is something that is a little bit deeper than what a paying customer would do. I'm able to enjoy that, or is it just like being at work? Is it? Is it something you're still able to do and find pleasurable in times of self-want, versus giving to others?

Speaker 2: 11:51

so the beautiful thing about um, taking classes in tantra and becoming more and more conscious of the self is or not not. Not conscious of the self, but more aware of the self is, like each session that I have, can 100 be about my pleasure if I wanted it to? Or if it was about that? So, like, differentiating doesn't really happen, because each person who walks in here, it's like I see them as somebody who is like I want to meet you in the highest point of pleasure for us, whether that's a physical thing or whether that's an emotional awareness thing, or whether that's found through compassionate touch, like that's like I want to meet you where it's the most authentic and and so, as far as like my pleasure, like I get a lot of pleasure out of that. And if every person I met in my life walked in here with the same vulnerability that these guys do, I would be so much more sexually active. But so many people have their fucking guards up all the time and in these rooms people come for whatever reasons. They come in for it and it's usually like a lot of the times it's because there's a vulnerability about them that and they need this, this, this, this thing that they are not be able to access outside of here and so just coming in here, it is enough for them to say I'm in need and that is open enough for me to be like, oh, I want to give myself to you and I want to meet you there. Like that is so sexy to me. People out there who I feel physically attracted to. They don't have the ability to put their pride away to talk to me about their sensitivities. You know, to them sex is still.

Speaker 2: 13:49

To a lot of people, sex is still the act of stimulation until orgasm. Sometimes they portray it as like a thing that can only happen in relationships where there's that deep emotional connection, whatever the fuck you want to call it. But like, that deep emotional connection can happen with anybody that you allow yourself to drop into in that way if you're open enough to meet them there. So like masturbating for me. Sometimes I think about boyfriends. Sometimes I think about really great one-night stands I've had. Sometimes I think about boyfriends. Sometimes I think about really great one night stands I've had. Sometimes I think about customers I've had. You know, it's not about it's not about the getting it all tangled up. It's like it's the more and more that we strip away the way we dress up orgasms and sex, the more simpler it becomes and you find yourself. You know, you surprise yourself all the time with what you're into, what kinds of things will turn you on, what kinds of things will get you there and the kinds of relationships that you are open to. It's endless.

Speaker 1: 14:44

What kind of client in general and I'm generalizing a lot, but do you see, coming to the ranch, is it the people that have, like you said, the needs? Is it people that say, for a certain amount I can fuck a beautiful woman? What is kind of the balance of the curiosity versus I know what I want, I want to, you know, fuck what do you find coming to the ranch?

Speaker 2: 15:10

It's all over the spectrum, it's so like I'll get. I just used last week, for example, there's one person who came in who was dressed as a woman and this was a male born body, and this person did not want to have penetration. This person expressed that they did not feel that they were a woman or that they wanted to be a woman. They expressed that there's a certain sensitivity and delicateness that women are treated with and that this person had never received in their lifetime. To feel delicate is what this person wanted. Kid is what this person wanted, and even though that was the core of what they needed, it manifested into them needing to feel like they wanted to dress as a woman. And this was like hosier, this was the um, the garter belts, the hosiery I think I'm saying that right hosiery, um, this beautiful butterfly thong, a skirt, beautiful top, like gorgeous heels, and the only thing that this person wanted to do was be caressed. And we stood. We stood right here in my room, right here by the door, and just rocked back and forth with each other for like 10 minutes. For 10 minutes it was just us finding a rhythm, walking back and forth, and then I asked if this person would lay down on the bed and I gave them just like light touch, light touch up and down the body, and there were moments where this person would just take really deep breaths and I could feel like it felt good to just be received as they were they were, and to be in a place where, like, it's secret and safe. You know where it's safe. The biggest thing for this person was that it's safe to explore what's going on in in this room. So that's that's one example from last week.

Speaker 2: 17:04

Um, then there was a couple who they've been married for like I don't know 30 years, something like that, and they go to strip clubs together and they really enjoy that and they kind of get each other off to that. But they wanted to strip clubs together and they really enjoy that and they kind of get each other off to that. But they wanted to try the possibility of, like, full service. And so she told me the woman told me I don't want you to be physically interactive with us. I feel better if you would just masturbate and if we were allowed to watch you.

Speaker 2: 17:29

And I was like done, you know done. And so so they enjoyed each other on the bed while they watched me masturbate. And there's one guy who comes in and he has a full business that he runs and he just doesn't have the space or the time to nurture a relationship and to help it grow. He's like I'm just working all the time and like I love the feeling of being in, you know, in this kind of cocoon space, but I just can't. So he comes in for that. So it's totally all over the spectrum.

Speaker 1: 17:58

There's people who come here who are on disability and like use their disability checks like it's crazy I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast, especially focusing on the brothels, is because I think we have an assumption as outsiders that it's just about going to get fucked, and there's a lot of other needs. I don't think I, with my own personal needs, would have sex at a brothel, but they're hearing what you're talking about. I'm like well, there are things that I would do and I think it's important to understand that a brothel isn't just you know, hardcore porn, that it's not just come on, fuck the girls. There's a lot of other emotional needs that that are on the essential spectrum. I guess to say that can be done there and I think if more people realize that, I think it kind of diminishes, diminishes some of the fear that it's not just about, you know, banging away at someone, that there's that, but there's also other things that are more emotionally driven and I think that's wonderful to hear those kinds of things, because I think I would fall into one of those categories versus the other.

Speaker 1: 19:11

Do you find that porn Is a positive or negative thing? I mean, you look at porn these days and so much of it is Grabbing the girl by the neck and pounding away at her. Is there an over assumption that that's what you guys do Versus? I mean, if you look at your Twitter accounts, for a lot of the brothel girls it's intimacy, it's not overly sexualized. It is hard pressed to find a picture of you nude. It's despite what you do, whereas a porn star they're nude all over their social media.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Does porn have a positive or negative effect at what you're trying to do? I think I really don't feel like I run into anybody who has. I would say that I can tell when I'm having sex with somebody who porn has been the way that they learned, you know, and it's not. It's only a negative thing if an individual doesn't know how to take control of the room, and there's conversations that a lot of people don't know how to have Things like. One of the questions I asked during negotiation is is there anything that you're into that I should know about? Most people will say, no, I'm pretty vanilla and I'll go okay. So things like choking, things like dominance, things like you know little, little things like that, Is there anything along those lines? And they'll say, oh yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm pretty dominant. You know, I like to be dominant and that communicates to me that they, they just like to feel like they have control. And so when we're in a session and I start to feel like that's not really authentic connecting, because they're more focused on on the act and then to to get to stimulation, I'll just like, I'll just, I'll just put my hands on their hips and go hey, like, where are you right now, like, are we connecting? You know, like, so it's not a negative thing, it's like. Well, it's a.

Speaker 2: 21:11

It's a learning curve thing, and one of the things that I realized recently is that many people don't know what a yin orgasm is. They know what a yang orgasm is, and a yang orgasm is where you, you're stimulated to climax through like a build-up. You know a yin orgasm is like a slower one that can be pulled in and have like a really beautiful internal experience, and so the, the yin orgasm is accessible, but it's just not as many people know about it, because we're so used to seeing an orgasm through the yang and like women have yang orgasms too. It's, it's accessed through the clitoris. That's what most women even know, that most women only know that about themselves. They don't even know that you can have a full, full orgasm that lasts for like hours and then lingers for days. You know if you, if you massage yourself, right, so, like, as far as like the sex goes, the only thing I can say is like, I just know, I know when, when I'm with somebody who, who uses it as the thing that's taught them. But, but, but sex on porn is just about showing the yang like that we just we just see the yang kind of orgasms.

Speaker 2: 22:27

But I also don't see porn as a bad thing most of the time, because there's lots of things that I wanted to learn how to do that I could only learn how to do through watching porn or through looking it up. You know, like I wanted to know what being DP was like. I needed to watch how to get into those positions first. Like you know, I want to know how to fit a fist into my vagina, like I want to know what the, what the movements are. You don't know these things unless you're with someone who's willing to experiment with you like that, who is also, like tenderly open to those kinds of things, or you can watch porn. You know, one of the ways that humans learn is through like visual, like. We're visual learners as well. I learned how to cut things in a kitchen by watching my grandma do it. You know like. So, yeah, it's just, porn is a learning opportunity for a lot of people, but it's also a visual stimulant for your, your, your sex organs, and so we're just like I can do this?

Speaker 1: 23:17

I just wonder because, I mean, at 18 we're expected to know what we're doing, even though most don't, and porn seems to be the only outlet to try to learn those things. There's not like a. I mean, I think something like you should have a youtube series on sex just to understand and talk about, because there isn't that other than than porn. So I just wondered how much porn influences some of the guests that come there. So when they do come there and you, you have your little, you know, the girls come out and and what is that like? Is that? Do you find that guys are overly picky? At that point They'll, they'll take anyone. How does it? Because I, I tend to be a picky person. I know what I would want If I went to a brothel. I am hard pressed to find it Sometimes. I know there's some sacrifices where, oh, if you're not into this, but she's beautiful this way. Do guys come and say nope, not today, I'm, I think I'm gonna come back tomorrow and see what my choices are. How does that all work?

Speaker 2: 24:22

yeah, sometimes they do so. They ring the bell. We all come to the bell rings through the house, we get out of bed, we come to the front, we all line up next to each other, all pretty, with our smiles and our boobs and our butts and our heels, and our stockings and our perfumes, and we go down the line saying our name and, um, by the end of it, the guy, guys, most of the time already know who they're gonna pick, like they know within the first like 10 seconds, and sometimes they'll do this thing because they they don't want to make us feel bad, which is so sweet where they're like oh my gosh, they're all so beautiful, I don't know who to pick, you know. And then they'll linger for a couple seconds and they'll pick the girl that they picked out within the first two seconds, and that's really sweet. But yeah, sometimes we'll line up and the guys will look, do a look, and they'll say oh, you know, I'm not seeing anybody I'm attracted to and they'll, they'll leave and that's that you know.

Speaker 1: 25:15

So you just, it is what it is I know you're not supposed to give away the goods for free, but can they ask you to flash, or can they ask you to like turn around and show them your ass a little? Are they asked? Are you allowed to?

Speaker 2: 25:29

oh, in lineup yeah um, I've had, I've seen this happen once where, like the guy would he, like he pointed to me and like I came forward to say hi, and he goes can I, can I see you spin? I was like sure. So he asked me to spin. But no, yeah, you're. You cannot show anything in in the public area. It's all got to be private that's what drives me nuts.

Speaker 1: 25:49

I like the fact that you girls are not slutty for the most part. I mean, some of the girls have some nudity on their stuff or on their social media, but for a lot of them it's it's lingerie and stuff like that. But as someone picky like me, I'm like god, I want to see, I want to see your tits, I want to see your nipple, because I'm like very, I have like a set boom that I, that I'm really attracted to, I'm like I'm gonna do this, I want to make sure I get this kind of move and so you don't have that nudity. So some of it's enticing of not knowing what you're going to get till you unwrap it, but some part of me wishes that you could see more. Is there competition among the girls? As far as I mean, you're coming out to various bell rings and you could have three, four bell rings before someone picks you. Is there any trick of the trade that you do to get noticed? Is it what you're wearing? Is it just that's part of the job? What is it?

Speaker 2: 26:47

so there's no, no tricks at the trade that you're gonna do to get you more notice, because that isn't it's considered what's called dirty hustling. So if I go out there and I'm doing any kind of like, like while I'm standing in lineup or bouncing or whatever, like it's not, it's looked at, it's frowned upon. But what you can do are things like, if you know that you look good from a certain angle, or you know you look good from a certain light, like you're going to position yourself in those places and sometimes, like You'll do things like put yourself on the end Because you like being the last one to say your name, or like you know so there's certain ways you can position yourself, but you really it's frowned upon to try and pull more attention To yourself and what's really necessary for the moment.

Speaker 2: 27:32

Because, like you know, anyways, one of the one of the rules that we have is that you shouldn't show your nipples like. Your nipples have to be covered like you can't. You can't show them through your outfit or anything, because nipples are a very magical thing that are very attractive.

Speaker 1: 27:46

So but see, that's part of my problem is I want to. I like a good nipple and a lot of these girls you can't see. So you're like, oh, do I take a chance on? And so part of me wishes there's a little bit more nudity in the courtesan aspect. But I get that it's. It's not as much, but some should I settle. I mean, should I lower my expectations or is it fair for the guy to have certain expectations?

Speaker 2: 28:17

um. Could you uh like?

Speaker 1: 28:19

the mindset what if I'm, if I'm coming there for the first time, you know, if I'm coming with, you know, my money, should I have high expectation? Should I be willing to settle some of my tastes for the experience? What is kind of the, the, the median of what I, my mindset should be coming in?

Speaker 2: 28:40

I mean, I think it depends on what your needs are. When you're walking in, like if it's just a physical experience and you've written, like seeing the nipples like the most important thing, you, you should probably settle it. You know, just just luck of the draw, because there's no telling, um, until you're in a session with somebody as far as nipple goes. But like if you're like, if it's just, if it's just the need for like stimulation to, you know, have, have an orgasm with somebody, and then you just kind of have to try things out until you find the right one. But if you're looking for more of like an emotional need, there is a longer negotiation process.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Now you mentioned the person that didn't need the sexuality, that needed more of the mental and physical stimulation. Was that something that was worked out? Were you chosen because you had talked about that before, or was that something that you talked to after they chose you?

Speaker 2: 29:38

you're talking about the person who came in, who was dressed as a woman yes, was that?

Speaker 1: 29:41

was that, is that something that they chose you and felt comfortable with you to then disclose more? Or was that something that was disclosed and they found you?

Speaker 2: 29:51

so that night that person came in dressed head to toe wig, shirt, skirt, heels and they did not want to line up. They said well, can I just sit at the bar and, you know, talk to some of the girls? And so I think I was the first one who went and talked to him and we hit it off pretty well, like I realized how sensitive this was, because the way that this person was carrying themselves was like this may have been the first time that they were like out dressing like this, and so like I approached it with a lot of sensitivity and like just openness. And then I asked well, you know, would you like to go talk about more of why you're here in my room? And we came to my room and had probably like a 10 minute conversation and one of the other girls joined me as well, and this was really cool, as we were sitting there doing the negotiation the one girl who joined me cause she wanted to just kind of be, she wanted to to see what was going on, understand it too.

Speaker 2: 30:54

And so we were sitting there and this person pulled out a set of nails, like pink press on nails, and he was like, would you guys mind putting this on me, and so we did. We sat there and put the nails on and pressed, but but and that was really sweet for the three of us to just be sharing this like girlish moment with this person who was looking to experience it but, um, yeah, that that wasn't something that me and that person discussed previously before them coming in and this person didn't pick me up at a lineup, it was just I sat with him at the bar, talked to him and had a sweet conversation, and he felt comfortable enough to book with me, and so we did.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Now a young, young kid looking to lose his virginity? Uh, sounds fun and exciting. Uh, nice looking businessman sounds exciting. Uh, I resemble more of a trucker, uh, which not every girl is going to say, wow, look at that guy coming in. What is it like kind of separating the? I mean we all have our instinctual perceptions, judgment biases. What would you say to someone that has that trucker build that might feel a little bit insecure about you know, not being the hot young kid or the sexy businessman that's curious about trying out coming to you know the ranch?

Speaker 2: 32:13

Okay, let me share something specific about me. I, I cannot. I am not turned on or attracted by anybody younger than like 20, like it. Like if there's an 18 year old looking to lose their virginity, it's not something I can entertain at all. I'm just like, it's just weird for me. So I go, okay, we'll find somebody for you. Like I just could, I couldn't do it I didn't, you would turn it down I would no, no way am I taking an 18?

Speaker 2: 32:36

turn it down. I would no, no way am I taking an 18 year old's virginity? No fucking way am I taking an 18 year old's virginity here. And when I first started working in the brothels I was like just kind of whatever, getting a feel for it. So there was like a couple of people who, like I, took their virginities but like, at some point I just like was like this is gross and I don't because, because they just feel so like unmolded by the world. Yeah, like they're just and I just it's just not something I can do anymore and it kind of grosses me out. But so then, but here's the thing one of the guys who was my regular last year he had a trucker build as well, um, but the way that he wanted my pussy, I didn't give a fuck. I was like you like, but you love my pussy, like that makes me wet. You know, like I made food for him, like it was a really good experience with him, so like.

Speaker 2: 33:31

And then the business guys who, whatever suit, tie, super, super buff, whatever, like it's for me is about the energy being shared between two people, like like there are, there are guys who come in who want to do the dominant thing, who are, who are confident in themselves and it's a great time and I have a great time and there are guys who come in who don't feel confident about themselves, but they are so fucking I don't even know how to explain it just like happy, happy, happy, you know, to be doing this, and that to me is like I love it. I love being in, like authentic joy with people when it comes to this, and so the closer you get to just being happy being here, the better it's going to be. So like the physical, instinctive attractiveness has never really deterred me or made me want something more. Does that make sense.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Yep, the other big fear I guess I would have is you're a beautiful woman and I don't want to insult you, but given that prices aren't discussed or disclosed anywhere, I would have zero idea. Do you find that most of the offers are real list? How do you do something if you're I mean like a car, if you have no clue what car prices are? How do you know what's the lamborghini versus the ford if no one talks about it? Do most people come with a realistic expectation? A lot of it. You have to explain. This is the value you're getting by by having a professional like me. Does that have to be explained and educated? What would you tell someone that has it's curious, but just doesn't have a financial clue of what they're getting into?

Speaker 2: 35:15

um, I fuck around and find out. All I can say, I mean because we're all considered independent contractors, which I'm sure you know by now, but, um, and so that means we all set our own prices and it's. It's really just, you have to come in and find out. And I do find myself having having to explain, like, the significance of what we, what we do, and why the numbers are the way they are. You know, because it's not something that you, you can get anywhere else really, and it's a safe environment. So that's some of the stuff that I talk about. But, yeah, it really is just like a fuck around and find out kind of thing, and you have to come, you have to ask the questions is it?

Speaker 1: 35:57

I mean, as part of the, the payment, just being allowed into your room, because, like full-blown fucking you, I would imagine, is going to be more than you putting on press-on nails and rubbing someone's back wearing a dress yeah, different it's different is the financial. I mean, is there that much? I mean, is there a large gap between something like that, or is it kind of you're paying for my time? You're paying for the ability to come into my room and be private with me?

Speaker 2: 36:31

there there are gaps for different services. If I mean there's no, there's no fee to come into the room because everybody has to come into the room at some point to do the negotiation, like that's that has to happen. But like if you just wanted to come in and hang out and you just needed some time, like you know that would be a different price than if you wanted to have a full session. And you know, then I, and then there's different services that I offer, like things like giving somebody an essence bath, which is like my favorite thing to do. Like I give a special number for that because it's my it's, it's, it's something that brings me joy. So like I designed some dates that are about the kinds of services that I love to give, you know, and then if there's special requests outside of that, or if there's something I'm not super about, you know we talk about, okay, where are you at financially? How can we meet each other when we're both satisfied with the agreement? You know it's, it's about equal satisfaction.

Speaker 1: 37:26

And bring her flowers, because flowers gets a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Yeah, if it, yeah, that's on my profile. If you bring me flowers, there's like a special I throw in. I throw in more stuff for people who bring me flowers. I'm actually going to change it. I want seeds now. I want people to bring me seeds. Live flowers are great if they're potted, potted flowers are great, but seeds. I want seeds now, specifically from harmony farms up in sonoma county or anywhere that has organic seeds from five generations back.

Speaker 1: 37:52

We're not talking about like like tomato seeds you can.

Speaker 2: 37:57

Yeah, it's sure food.

Speaker 1: 37:58

I want to grow food someday, so I just I just planted about a thousand seeds in those little cups that are out in my little mini greenhouse outside. So oh, my gosh tomatoes, or what uh, cherry tomatoes, regular tomatoes, um, some green peppers. I have a community garden in my backyard and then I bought like a little mini six by six greenhouse type plastic thing that I'm growing seeds in, for the community to come and uh, take seedlings once they start growing.

Speaker 2: 38:28

So oh, that's amazing. I have some. I'll email you. I have a friend who he has a greenhouse business and he's like he's he recognizes the the um. What he's seeing is like an American revolution for people to start growing food at home. So he makes these really easy setup, set up affordable greenhouses for people to buy. So I'll send you his email, cause like he would be a good person to talk to. And one of the guys here he has a farm. He's he's growing food too and he's he's growing food too and he's gonna start bringing us in vegetables per my request. He brought us rhubarb last week and he's gonna bring leaks in this this friday. So if you ever find yourself with a surplus of tomatoes and you want to bring them in, a little bit far away.

Speaker 1: 39:10

But hey, one of the last things is talking about the future. You've been doing this for you know, a couple years. We not going to give away how old you are. I know one of the things that you would like to do is open some acreage dedicated to the arts and growing fruit trees. How long do you see yourself doing this for, and what does the future hold?

Speaker 2: 39:30

I would love to be complete with this by the time that I'm 30.

Speaker 2: 39:37

Complete with this by the time that I'm 30, um, and in that time I'd love to be pursuing music I got a new guitar today which I'm really happy with.

Speaker 2: 39:49

So pursuing music and um over the next handful of years or so, saving up for a property and hopefully I want to turn it into like a community living space and a center for teaching girls. Specifically, I want it to be like a private women's study school and I want to do the. I want to have bees and have flowers and trees that grow fruit, and part of it is to be like a public access space with like a pond below tree for people to come and picnic on and for surrounding elementary schools to come and, you know, take trips to and have it just be kind of like a beautiful community settling space for learning and want to have a family. I want to do the kids thing and my life is super unconventional, so the good thing is I'll I'll have a really unconventional person to do that with. But yeah, it's kind of the soft vision for the future and I think I've been holding that, that vision, for a while, so I really feel it solidified in me.

Speaker 1: 40:56

Nice Well Grace, thank you so much for coming on. I find these talks fascinating. I think there's the eye candy part of it, but also I think some of these things are fascinating. I think we have our own vision of what we think a sex worker is like and I think a lot of us view it as you know, the porn industry. Come to life. Where I get to you know, come over and fuck a beautiful woman. But there's so much more for that and my hope is that at least one person one day says that they heard the podcast and loved your personality and that made them come to see you. But I think it's important to see the personality of of some of these women and get a better understanding that it's not always about sex or it can be more emotional.

Speaker 1: 41:40

I think a lot of people are on the fence. I mean, there's so much unknown about a brothel. I think there's so much mystery surrounded in it that part of what I'm doing is trying to shed that light, because so much of these profiles are beautiful pictures of beautiful women, but there's no personality on these pages. I think that's a key thing that's missing in understanding of that. It doesn't have to be all about performance. It can be a little bit about intimacy and shedding light on that, so I appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to give a little light into that yeah, thanks for being curious about it.

Speaker 2: 42:20

Um, and there's a lot of there's there's there's a lot of profiles on there that do have a lot of personality in their bios and um, I think that sometimes the focus is less about that, though, for people who are browsing, if you know what I mean. But the one last thing I want to say is about the girls. Like we were, people think this is what you come to when it's like your last resort whatever. I know a lot of girls here who have successful businesses, who've like graduated with their degrees, who are out of their divor, divorces, and this is just something that they're doing because it's extra income or it's fun for them, or they're feeling alive sexually, or they just want to come and experience it like it's totally not like a sad last resort thing, and a lot of these women are a lot of these women are really impressive and so