Speaker 1: 0:12

My guest this episode is Sage. She is a divorced mom that rediscovered her sexuality at a late age. She's here to talk about it. Sage, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 0:24

So tell us a little bit about your growing up. How were you raised as far as sexuality was concerned and discussed about in the house?

Speaker 2: 0:32

It really wasn't. It made me afraid actually because I didn't know anything about it wasn't? It made me afraid actually because I didn't know anything about it? The first time I heard my parents having sex I thought my dad was like being mean to my mom because there was all these sounds I didn't recognize. And so I most of my middle school and in going into high school I thought that it was a bad thing, that it was painful, so I kind of avoided it like the plague at first because I didn't know what it was about. And then I had some high school boyfriends and we had sex, but it really wasn't anything spectacular because I didn't know what I was doing or know anything about it. And I got married.

Speaker 2: 1:09

And then I was married for almost 25 years and discovered orgasms. After that I didn't really have anything to compare anything to. He never let me have toys. Um, I didn't know what I was missing cause I never had toys. I never had an orgasm. I never had any concept of what that was like. And then growing up I was never told anything. My sister had a reputation, so I was, I was trying to live that down. It was just something that I tried to not think about. And then and I got married and he just wasn't sexually fulfilling, I guess, cause I didn't yeah it, I would make sure I had the remote before we had sex so that I could make sure I paused it on the commercial breaks. It never lasted that long.

Speaker 1: 1:54

Did you feel like you were missing something or because you didn't know any better? This was how it was, and so you were content with what you had. So, there, there wasn't a period that you were frustrated that you weren't getting anything. You didn't know what you were missing until after everything was said and done clue what I was missing.

Speaker 2: 2:13

Um, the day after I left my husband, I ended up having sex and my first threesome. And I smoked pot for the first time all the next day and, uh, it was life changing. I had no idea. I thought that I was having like these little like orgasm things, but come to find out it was just like, oh, that felt good for like a second and that wasn't an orgasm. And then I had them. Holy crap, am I a fan? I thought that I was going to explode. I had no idea. I thought I was going to pee the bed Like. I had no idea what it was like. And then, after that, I'm a fan.

Speaker 2: 2:48

And so I wanted more and more and more, but I had nothing to compare it to like at all. Like I said, no toys, no, nothing. He tried and I would fake it from what I thought it would sound like, and he was content with that, and so that's just how it was. And then I realized that how I was faking it was absolutely ridiculous. It was so not even faking an orgasm. I yeah, now that I know what they are. And I started having like one or two, and then it kind of went to like five or six, and then I had a injury and surgery and it kind of went to about 20 or 30. After that there was some like nerve things that happened during the surgery, so now it's like literally 20 or 30 or more at a time, and so now it's now it's like a whole world that I didn't even know existed and that everybody should have it. Oh my God, everybody needs to have them. They're that good.

Speaker 1: 3:46

Did he simply not care to explore that either? Or did he know that he was not fulfilling you in a way that a husband should be trying to fill you?

Speaker 2: 3:57

I'm not sure if he knew or if he cared, because he had some medical issues. I think it was because he was on a lot of the medications and his testosterone was pretty much non-existent. So there were most of the time he would come like before he even got in me or right when he did, and so it wasn't long, it wasn't very hard, it wasn't anything. And if it got beyond that point, sometimes if I was on top it would get, he would be able to get in there, but then I wasn't able to move. He would tell me don't move, don't move, don't move, because then he would come right away. And so I don't know if it was more of his own like mental thing I mean for me to have one or not, but it was, um, it was just nothingness at all.

Speaker 2: 4:38

And I sometimes, if there were things that he would do with his hands, I would feel good, but that was it, and I didn't, and I thought that that was all that there was, and I knew that he was coming. I just didn't think that I needed that. I had anything else to do. I thought that I had gone to that level because I didn't know what that level was, and I know, I think in hindsight, the reason why I could not have toys and the reason why he was so ridiculously jealous, because I think that he knew what could have been and he did not want me to know what could have been, because then I would have been unsatisfied and I wasn't.

Speaker 2: 5:14

I was happy with him. He was a good guy. He just wasn't my good guy, you know. And I, just after the fact, I just realized now that, wow, the poor guy and the poor girlfriends, and like, I didn't know, you know, I didn't know, and I don't think that he has ever experienced what it is like for a woman to have, mind blowing, multiple squirting orgasms. I don't think he's ever experienced that because he couldn't do that. So I don't think that he knew what I was missing out on either.

Speaker 1: 5:44

But I also think that some of it is how we were raised as kids. There isn't anyone that teaches you your first time. You're right.

Speaker 1: 5:53

Your first time is also with someone. That's usually their first or second time, and it almost is too bad that there isn't someone, almost like a referee, saying I've talked about this before I would love to be in a couple relationship and find an 18-year-old and bring her into the mix and show her what a 30, something year old couple, how they do things, oh, and then say go back now and demand that from every other person that you're with, because you know you ask your boyfriend at 18, you know, to go down on you and right, he does what he thinks he knows or saw or his friends tell him, but there really isn't any kind of.

Speaker 1: 6:39

I mean, we talk about sex ed, but there really isn't that, that kind of learning process, no, and so you can get your twenties, thirties, forties and just have no clue because there's not that, that kind of education other than porn, right, which is so unrealistic, but porn is is, yeah, so unrealistic and it's it's an extreme of something. But there isn't really any kind of guide or anything like that, and I think it would be. I mean, everyone's like, oh yeah, you want the 18 year old, but I think it would be amazing to take someone younger, you know, even a guy you know, bring him in with a couple and just say, okay, here's how you do it, and then to have someone say, no, you're doing it wrong, or here's how you do do it right, and and to have that to show them and have them go back to rich and such and say this isn't what I learned, right here's how you're gonna do it.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Well, it's funny. You said that because a friend the friends who introduced me to the lifestyle is really good at making women squirt, and so they had a guy friend who had never really been able to do that. So we kind of hosted like a class, if you will, with him and a couple of his other friends to teach them how to you know the hand movement, all that kind of stuff. And I got to be that practice dummy, if you will, and that was amazing, like that was something that I had never experienced before, and they learned a lot. They did very, very well, but had that not happened, they still wouldn't know how to do that. And so I think that being able to ask the questions and learn from other people is totally key of it all. I mean I'm not like super bisexual, I'm very much to the, I go with the vibe and the connection and the that type of thing. It's not necessarily about man or woman, it's all about the vibe of it all. But that doesn't mean I know what I'm doing when it comes to women. So if I had somebody teach me how to do that, I mean that would be phenomenal, you know because I've done it, but I don't know if I'm doing it good. I have no idea if they're enjoying themselves as much as they could be. You know, because it's new to me, and so I think that, yeah, we need people like that, who would go and teach people how to do those things. You know, I mean I'm at a disadvantage. I have a titanium jaw joint, so my blowjob game sucks, and not in a good way, because I can only open a little bit, so I can't do that anymore. So if I had other skills, that would be amazing. So I need those. You, if I had someone to teach me what I could do, that would be phenomenal, since I am so new to this. I mean, I'm only 50. I've only done this like maybe three years, and so I still have a ton to learn.

Speaker 2: 9:07

But I have taught people how to navigate the lifestyle a little bit, because I was indoctrinated quickly and that helps just having somebody that you can ask like is this normal? Is this a guy that I want to talk to? Is this chick? Are they trying to like, you know, screw me over that type of thing?

Speaker 2: 9:23

I think everybody needs somebody who can teach them something you can learn from anybody, especially sex, and because if you've never especially growing up, you know I went to church. It doesn't mean I believed in it, but I went because that was what was expected of me. But you grew up in a small town, you have sex with more than like two people and you're a whore and then nobody wants to go out with you and it's all about expectation and it's all about the image of somebody and I don't agree with that. I don't agree that there should be a norm. I don't agree that there has to be a limitation or things. I think everyone should just own their shit and, you know, get to that and if you're young enough, when you learn that, think of the life you could have for that you know you were just. You can just be happy and content and satisfied and meet the people that are confident in themselves at the same time and you can do amazing things, you know well, I think part of the problem is in school.

Speaker 1: 10:18

We're taught. If you don't understand something, ask Right. So in sexuality it's almost a failure to be taught. You know time out. I need you to do it a little differently, or I need you to do it this way, because you're not getting it and it's where I don't know who engraved it.

Speaker 2: 10:38

But it's a failure if I have to stop someone or if I get stopped yeah, because you can't stop somebody say, oh no, don't do it this way, do it another way. I like it better, like this, because then either you're too picky or you're needy, or, um, you know you're going to hurt their feelings or you know it is all. You're absolutely right. It's ridiculous. How are you supposed to learn how to please somebody if they're not telling you how that works? But nobody ever asks and nobody ever stops and corrects for the most part, and I think that's awful, you know. I think it needs to be more open and it needs to be more of a conversation and also that builds more of a connection with somebody. If I don't have a connection with somebody, they ain't touching me, you know, and that's fine.

Speaker 2: 11:22

There are people who can have sex with anybody and that's great. It's just not me. But you know, if you are able to have those, that communication, can you imagine how good that sex would be if you could have that communication with both ways? Like I tell guys, if you want me to do something, either make me do it or tell me what you want, and if I can do it, I will do so. And please, you know, let me know, because I you're here for pleasure too it's not just mine and so I don't know you. I want to make sure that you're happy and I want to make sure that you're satisfied, but I don't know you well enough to know what that is. So tell me and introduce me. Guide me to that, because it's supposed to be beneficial for both of us. Because it's supposed to be beneficial for both of us, you know.

Speaker 1: 11:56

And it does seem like I mean school. We go to school to learn how to do something. We take driver's ed to learn how to drive a car. You're right, we go to chef school to learn how to be a chef. But when it comes to losing your virginity, it's go at it, kids, and figure it out, and it's the blind beating the blind and figure it out, and it's the blind being the blind. And what happens then is, 30 years later, you realize that you're in a marriage where the marriage may be okay but you're missing a huge part that you didn't even know you're missing, and then have that void filled.

Speaker 2: 12:30

I think there has to be a little bit of even though it didn't sound like.

Speaker 1: 12:35

It sounds like there was some intentional just because he didn't want to feel he realized that he wasn't doing enough or he wasn't doing it right, so he kind of held you back. But it sounds like the overall feeling wasn't that he wasn't trying Right. I mean, there's some holding you back, but it wasn't that he was trying to hold you back or not give you, you know, only care about himself. It sounds like he just didn't simply know.

Speaker 2: 12:57

He didn't know and he wasn't capable either, because I think, in a way, because if I got going or if I got close, it would put him over the top and he would be done, and he didn't want that to happen either. So you know he was, he wanted to see me enjoy myself and get off. But yet if he saw me enjoy myself and get off, it would be that much quicker for him to come to, and so that would be over, and so that's that fine line too for him. To where. How do I try to pleasure her without ending it myself?

Speaker 2: 13:28

And then, once he came in my head, it was over. You know, he came as done, and so then I'd be ready to go make dinner or attend to something or whatever. Because there was no after, Because I didn't know there could be an after at that time.

Speaker 1: 13:42

So it was two blind people meeting each other, causing 30-some years. How long were you married? Almost 25. 25. 25 years of marriage where I had just I'm not saying either of you learned, where I had just I'm not saying either of you learned. But if there was some kind of being or some light goes on, and I've actually seen videos of they do have. It's almost like yoga groups where you know you get spread out on a mat and they learn how to do that.

Speaker 1: 14:14

But it's a shame that sex is so taboo that we don't do those kind of things where I mean, if we, you need a license to cut people's hair. You need an education to do almost any job. Yet when it comes to marriage, if you have a kid, you have to go to classes to out-raise a kid. Sexuality is pretty much the one thing that you're just expected to know from the get-go and expected to perform.

Speaker 2: 14:45

Well, that's society's norms, because sex is supposed to procreate period. You know, especially when you're in the Bible Belt and things like that. Sex is strictly for procreation and not for entertainment value. Sex is strictly for procreating and not for entertainment value, and that's how a lot of people still feel, or that's how you're supposed to feel, and you don't. And you feel bad because you don't feel that way. You don't think that you can drive pleasure from it, and so why would you need a class to derive pleasure for it when you're supposed to be procreating? You know, and I never. I mean, I never knew if there would have been that aspect of it, and when we were married I'm sure we could have found it, but I was too embarrassed to admit that I was unsatisfied, because, I mean, I knew that I was unsatisfied to a certain extent, but you know why and I didn't know how unsatisfied it was.

Speaker 2: 15:32

I didn't know why so, and I was too embarrassed to admit that because I didn't want him to feel bad. It wasn't his fault that he couldn't do things like that. And what was I going to be the complaining, whining wife? That was like wanting all these things and being needy and greedy. I mean, that's not who I wanted to be either, and so there was no communication for that, you know. And then, once I found out about the lifestyle, I get to be needy and greedy. I I get to be all about myself to a certain extent. I mean, I want the other person to have them. You know, enjoy themselves too. But in the, in the big picture of it all, I'm there for orgasms. I'm there for as many as I can get, and if you get some in the meantime, awesome. But you know, it's not like we're going to be dating. It's not like we're going to go long term. That's what the lifestyle is. We're simply toys and a means to an end, with respect.

Speaker 1: 16:23

Do you think, had you met him let's see, fast forward. And now you're back to your young age again. You met him today, in today's environment do you think things would have been different, or you both would have been still? I guess my question is has sexuality opened up enough that you have been more clued in of things, or do you think you both still would have been sheltered enough that you wouldn't have realized it?

Speaker 2: 16:49

Had I had an orgasm prior, I definitely don't think that I would have settled to not having them again. Like I said, he's a great guy. He's a great guy. He just wasn't my great guy and sexually we were not compatible in any way. Now that I know what I can get and now that I know how it feels had he, if he would be able to satisfy me, I probably would have been great, even if I'm them today if he would be able to satisfy me sexually. Great, you know. But I don't think that I could ever be in a situation again where I am wanting and needing and not receiving. But I still don't know with him specifically if I would have felt comfortable having that conversation.

Speaker 1: 17:31

Is there any regret? Because it doesn't sound like there's a bad guy in this. It wasn't like he was off doing his own thing, didn't care about your needs. Just as long as he got off he was fine. It doesn't sound like he was intentionally sabotaging things or just didn't care. He'd rather watch the football game. Is there any regret? Or is it hard when there's no bad guy? It wasn't like he was abusive. It doesn't sound like he didn't lose his temper at you. It's just when it came to that thing. He didn't know any better, you didn't know any better and you thought you were getting by until you had.

Speaker 2: 18:04

So he did not have the orgasm yeah, we still need not knowing, so yeah, I mean that it wasn't the main reason why we divorced. It was the main, it was part of it, but he was just absent. He worked a lot, so he was absent all the time. I was a married single mom and I was just.

Speaker 2: 18:22

You know, you just change your dynamic when it comes to that and because I was alone so much I just it's almost like he became more of a person who lived in my home, who wasn't satisfying, but have a lot of money, I guess, if you will. But had I met him today, I would like him, as I would really want to get to know him as a person and who he was. But when it came to sex if that was still the same I probably would not have seen him again, honestly, because I would have known that that is not something that I'm going to live the rest of my life with, unless he was open to having an open relationship or swinging, which God forbid, holy hellfire. No, he was not as bad. He was so jealous, I mean. He thought, I mean my, he told my kids I was a dirty whore when we got divorced because he thought I was cheating on him, which I never did. But you know, he was that insecure about it and so I think he knew that he had problems, more so than I thought.

Speaker 2: 19:18

You know, because, yeah, I was a dirty whore cheating on him all the time, because I, you know, because, yeah, I was a dirty whore cheating on him all the time, because I, you know I I wasn't wanting to have sex with him as often as I had prior to that. Well, what's the point if I am literally just pausing the? You know, I'm pausing my show so that we can sit there for four and a half minutes and I can lay there, so it really wasn't exciting for me. Granted, I mean, I get it was for him, but if that part never changed, I met him today. I'd never see him again. If that part changed, yeah, absolutely. You know it'd be different. But I am never going to settle again to not having all of my needs fulfilled.

Speaker 1: 19:55

So you had the threesome Yep, you got high on pot. Yep, you discovered your orgasm. Yep. What did that unleash? And tell us some of the, the drugs you. Some might say you overcorrected to make up for lost time. Some might say that you just are living your life. How do you see it?

Speaker 2: 20:14

So the guy that I lost or I found my orgasm with was not the guy who introduced me to the lifestyle. I ended up, you know, kind of hanging out with him for a while and had the orgasms and so forth and that was it. It was just him and it was. It was great sex and all, but then I ended up fun story.

Speaker 2: 20:30

I ended up on Tinder, meeting this one girl who we were going to go out and have drinks with. We were just going to hang out and have drinks and we got kind of drunk and stuff and we started talking about sex, like girls do, and we got really drunk and so we couldn't drive home and so we started talking about threesomes and she's like I got this guy and I'm like okay, cool, she's like why not? She's like okay, he's going to pick us up in the bar.

Speaker 2: 20:52

Okay, great, Well he doesn't show up and so we're like whatever. So we took an Uber to her place and we keep drinking and we're smoking some weed or whatever. And then the next thing I know we're naked and she's on the kitchen counter and we're doing our thing and then this guy walks in. Six foot three ball guy walks in, no idea who he was, and she does not see him because she's staring at the ceiling. And he sees us and he walks in and he starts taking off his clothes and I'm just watching him doing my thing or whatever. And then next thing I know he's behind me and then he's in me and then he looks at me and he's like hey, my name is such and such.

Speaker 2: 21:28

And then 11 hours later we're really good friends and we had had sex all night long and we had I scored it for the first time and I learned all of these things about his life and about the lifestyle and everything else and we became really good friends. And that's how I about the lifestyle and everything else and we became really good friends and that's how I entered the lifestyle from there and I was indoctrinated quickly but, um, it was just kind of a fluke because I didn't know that he was coming. I didn't know that that was going to be a thing. And he had nine and a half inch dick and, oh god, it was a fulfilling evening for that, oh man so you had a lot to learn about yourself?

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yeah, but also because you were in that relationship where you weren't able to fully understand how to give, did you find that quickly, finding your own kind of like oh, this is what I should have been doing, because, I mean, I don't want to say you're guilty, but you, out of both being naive, you both had some responsibility that you weren't satisfying him necessarily, again, not because there was anything wrong, just you didn't know any better. So how were you able to discover some of your own faults and correct that?

Speaker 2: 22:36

Unfortunately, the guy that brought me into the lifestyle was very good at pointing out faults and making you understand those things in a bad way, but in a good way too, because I went into it not knowing what to expect. I knew nothing about it. I kind of just followed what I was told, in a way. But then there was emotions involved at the time which I didn't realize was going to happen, and it took me a while to figure out that emotion and sex are two separate things, that you can have sex without having emotion and vice versa. So that took me a little bit. It was a rough road at first because I wasn't sure I was still in the. You have sex with people because you care about them and they care about you and blah, blah, blah, and so there was a lot of hurt feelings and there was a lot of late nights and things like that at first, which I totally ignored because of the orgasm. But when you start to look at yourself and do the work on yourself and things like that, you realize the difference and it took me a while to get there. But once I got there, now I know that sex and emotion are two separate things and that if you have emotion with somebody, that doesn't mean you're necessarily going to have good sex, but you can work on that and that's something that, if you communicate, can happen. And if you have sex with somebody, that doesn't mean you're going to have an emotion, but the sex is probably going to be damn good. You know, chances are and it depends on that vibe.

Speaker 2: 24:03

But I was a part owner in a swingers club for a while. I saw a lot of things and a lot of different dynamics for that and there's a lot of shit shows out there, a lot of shit shows that know nothing about what they should and they're in it for all of the wrong reasons. All of the wrong reasons which I think I was at first because I wanted to experience life. I all the wrong reasons which I think I was at first, because I wanted to experience life. I went batshit crazy About nine months. I went batshit crazy finding doing anything and everything I could because I'd never done anything like that before.

Speaker 2: 24:29

But it took me a little while to come out of it. But it was fun while it lasted and it was a great time. But now that I've done it, I feel more comfortable in my life now, because now there's not as many surprises and new things. Now I know what I like and what I don't like, which I think is important for anybody in any type of sexual relationship, whether it's swinging or not. But yeah it, it changes you. The whole thing changes you once you start owning your own sexuality and owning your own shit.

Speaker 1: 24:56

And if you own it and you can be confident in it and you're able to communicate it, I don't think there's really much to lose so you basically over corrected for a little bit for many years of not doing, and then things settled down and you finally can have found your own groove. I think the emotions part is a big thing. I think I think we get we confuse respect and emotions too often. If I'm coming in with a couple, it's I respect you as a couple, here's what we're going to do, but it's not emotion, and I think some of it is. There's kind of a sexiness to the term swing. There's a fantasy that goes on in a guy's head, and especially for a guy. I mean, I can't speak for women, but I've had couples that were interested. You know, we're just getting started. We think we're going to give us a shot and I'll respond back and be like I'd like to see your wife's big breasts. Just a rude, you know, not a rude comment.

Speaker 2: 26:04

An honest comment.

Speaker 1: 26:05

Let me see your wife's breasts and his first reaction is like what do you mean? And I'm like dude, you've got to get used to this. And the reason I ask that is to trigger, to see how you would feel, because you're giving me an emotional response to something, because you've been programmed that for so many years you're you know, you get married and this is your wife. You're talking about this, but the first sign of any kind of sexual talk about your wife, you get protective and defensive. How do you think you're going to be when you do this and so I'll often do that as a test I'll toss out something inappropriate.

Speaker 2: 26:44

On the other hand, that's true, but on the other hand, if you're going to toss out something inappropriate up front, then what are you going to do in the moment? And so I can see the protective nature of it. As a man, I mean, I have great tits, don't get me wrong, they're all mine. They're great tits. But if the second message and a guy comes at me about whatever, yeah, it won't be the same you know what I'm saying? It's like there's a line.

Speaker 1: 27:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:05

You know you've got to have the respect, but you do have to open up that floor and there is going to be some protectiveness from the creepy single guy. But if you are overprotective with any single guy then that's a red flag for sure. But you've got to weed of guys too.

Speaker 1: 27:19

And I don't mean that I do it. The second message I'm usually talking to them for a while. Right, I'm saying no, but it's so often the husband is overly eager and then until that kind of dialogue changed to where his wife becomes, he'll change quickly too. Right, absolutely, and so, yeah, it's not, and I should have phrased it better, but it's not the second thing I say. But we'll be in a long conversation.

Speaker 2: 27:43

Those scenarios are probably where the wife has no idea what he's doing. She's like some kind of pseudo-hot wife in a way.

Speaker 1: 27:50

I'm sure that's another thing that's becoming wildly popular.

Speaker 2: 27:55

That's like the ultimate, in a way, ultimate dream of, I think, a lot of women, in a way, because who doesn't want to have sex with a lot of guys but still only love one and have their man involved with it?

Speaker 1: 28:09

It's not even that. I'm seeing a lot of husbands loving having their wife post her pictures, absolutely and then send them to guys, and that's something that just wasn't.

Speaker 2: 28:21

No, it's true, You're right.

Speaker 1: 28:23

Because they were very protective before, but now it's like check this out, this is mine.

Speaker 2: 28:26

You want this and I got this and I'll let you have it, but it's still mine and yeah I get that and it's I mean things like flicker.

Speaker 1: 28:34

You go and there's lots of pages of guys just their wife's posing and I would assume, after like 400 pictures, she knows that she's. So I don't think it's like a casual. Like I snapped a picture of my wife Nikki. Here's her picture. They're posting daily content.

Speaker 2: 28:51

Yeah, they're wanting to promote that and I think that some wives are very naive on some of it and there's some that are all in, and I think that's great.

Speaker 1: 29:02

But what's also great, too, is the term hot wife Does not necessarily mean perfect wife.

Speaker 2: 29:08

Not even a little bit. I think that's what people are not realizing.

Speaker 1: 29:12

You're right, is that? It's not hot wife, isn't? Here's my supermodel looking wife.

Speaker 2: 29:20

It's here's my, here's my wife come fucker.

Speaker 1: 29:22

Well, it's. Here's my wife, mom of my three kids, Mm-hmm, you know that that I've loved for, you know, 30 years. Look at how beautiful she is, Flaws and all.

Speaker 2: 29:35

Yep, absolutely, and there's and OnlyFans.

Speaker 1: 29:37

We talked about that earlier. Onlyfans is another thing where these women are finding empowerment that we're not. I mean you don't see a mom of three in Playboy. You don't see, because we. Playboy is a great example, because you look at earlier Playboys and they look like moms, Right, they look like real women. In fact, some of the centerfolds in the pictures that accompany the centerfolds, they used to have pictures of their kids. They had kids. That's crazy. Like in the, not the dirty pictures the Victoria on the Fort.

Speaker 1: 30:09

Yeah, but they not the dirty pictures but they'll have. Like, here's her, you know, on a Sunday day at the picnic with her three-year-old or whatever, and no one thought of that. But then in the eighties everything gets so airbrushed and the nineties everything was so. So we had this culture of someone. Someone says, you know the hot wife scenario. Yeah, there's some gorgeous women that are perfect, but but a lot of them are, you know, mom with kids. That isn't perfect, but she feels beautiful because a thousand people looked at her picture and I commented how beautiful she is and it's very empowering. And we're seeing older women with flaws and everything and in the apartment with the life.

Speaker 2: 30:51

So that's what drew me the most. I think I had been assaulted prior to that and it was very difficult for me and I think having a lifestyle, because the lifestyle is very women-driven, it's very dictated by women. Even if you're married and you're a hot wife, it's still dictated for the most part by women. You know, we decide what happens. It's our vaginas, you know, we decide what happens is our vaginas, you know, and things like that.

Speaker 2: 31:10

And I think that that is what drew me to it most of all and it gave me a lot of my power back after that, because I could almost like it's not I want to say pick and choose, but it was my control over I'd go to a party or I'd go to a club or whatever, and it was like, yeah, not so much, and I was able to make those choices and they stuck, as opposed to, you know, having that taken away from me. And so I think that that was the main thing that drew me to it, besides the orgasms, of course. But um, I it really gave me my power back because I was in control, where a lot of times in just the regular world and the regular section over here women aren't in control as much because we are very, you know, dependent on the men, and so I think that's what drew me to it a lot and I think I've ran with that quite a bit.

Speaker 2: 31:54

I mean, as far as the people that I know and the things that I've done. I've ran with that because I think that that's important, because if women don't own their sexuality, then they're just going to be taken advantage of too, and I don't want that to happen well, I think it also if done right, because there's a lot that aren't doing it right, but if done right, it opens up a lot of communication between the husband and wife.

Speaker 1: 32:15

Um, it makes her feel more comfortable. It also teaches her yes, you have flaws, but don't look at them as flaws, because the flaws that you see when you look at yourself in the mirror are not what people are seeing. They're not the right and so it's. You know, I always tell husbands, you know, tell her the.

Speaker 1: 32:38

The photographs aren't for her right it's him, through his eyes, what he finds the beauty. To let him show that beauty off and express that. And you may not like every picture that the husband takes of you, but it's through his eyes and his view of beauty that you're sharing it through. I think, if done right, it can open a lot of communication between a husband and a wife. It can.

Speaker 1: 33:09

That makes it a very kind of powerful thing. I've seen a couple of couples that just really enjoy showing it off and they're not doing it for you know. It's not like oldie fans, where they're doing it for them. You know, hey, you want to see my wife naked? Here's $40 and you can do it. There's a lot that are doing it on a non-pay site just because they find their wife so beautiful that they want to show her off, and I think that can be an interesting gesture.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Never having a partner in the lifestyle. It's hard for me to comment for sure on that, but I feel like you're right. For sure being a unicorn is a little bit different because it's a competition more so for the unicorns, big time is a fucking competition for it all. But I mean, I sure it's different when you are in that because you have somebody supporting you and they have somebody you know standing, you know behind you and post those pictures and loving them all. But as a unicorn it definitely is not that at all.

Speaker 1: 34:05

So you were corrected and now it's been a couple years where you've settled down. You've you've run some things and seen how the different aspects of the, the lifestyle, run. What is your niche now? What is your like? Are you rediscovering things still, or you've you settled down to here's what I like, here's what I want, here's what I'm going forward wanting, or is it still an exploration for you?

Speaker 2: 34:30

it's always going to be an exploration, I think. Um, I just came to the state recently, with less than a year ago. Things have changed dramatically from where I was. Where I was it, I had a different world. Now, up here where I am now, it's very closed-minded and, um, not as accepted, and so I'm still trying to find my niche where I am, and I'm not having a great success with it, because I live in the middle of nowhere and I have to travel quite a bit to find anything but um, so I'm still exploring, trying to figure out where I fit because of where I am, um, there's not a lot of opportunity for meeting people. There's not a lot of opportunity for parties and things like that. There's not a lot of opportunity for parties and things like that. There's not a lot of opportunity for much of anything, unfortunately. Um, I would love to open that up more. I'm a great host, I'd love to plan parties, but there's nowhere and nobody to do it for where I'm at. So I'm still exploring where I fit. Now I'm getting there, now I'm trying to get there.

Speaker 2: 35:29

I guess I should say I still need to meet more people. I still need to go out more. I am more. I'm much more scared to go places by myself now than I was before, and I think it's because I am more leery of the judgment that goes along with it, because it is such smaller communities up here where I am than there was before.

Speaker 2: 35:49

So I'm trying to still build a little bit more of that confidence I used to have, because it's new new people, new dynamics, new parties, new atmosphere, and I'm not close to it all, I'm not next door to it like I used to be. So I have to search it out, I have to find it, I have to try to find the right fit, but I still am a little batshit crazy. But I'm still wanting to find where everything fits. I mean, I go back home, you know, as often as I can and then I feel like I'm, you know, comfortable again and that's the best part. I mean I don't mind walking into a party and just whatever. Here I walk into a party and I'm more shy and I'm not a shy person, but I'm going to try to find it up here and I'm going to try to grow it and explore it. But yeah, I feel like I'm comfortable in who I am. I just have to find where that is now Cause I don't know if they want somebody like me, cause I'm not the norm.

Speaker 1: 36:47

It sounds like you've caught up for the most part, but you still feel like an outsider in this.

Speaker 2: 36:53

Yeah, because I'm so new to it, I'm always going to kind of feel like an outsider. So these people have been in for decades and they go way back and they've got stories and they've got, you know, memories and things like that and I don't, you know, I I'm just kind of there. You know, I'm kind of on the fringe of it all in a way, because I don't have anything to share long-term and so, you know, I haven't been here a year and so it's hard to really get to know who these people are and share those long-term memories and be able to go to a party or go to hang out or say, hey, you know, remember such and such or do this. I don't have that and they do. Or you know they've got a partner and I don't, and so it makes it a little bit more difficult.

Speaker 2: 37:37

Being a unicorn is great and all but everybody. I have yet to meet very many couples that understand what a unicorn needs and what a unicorn wants and how to treat one, especially up here more so, and so that makes it more difficult in general because I'm not a human. To a lot of people Unicorns aren't human.

Speaker 1: 37:51

Now you've been here for a little bit Is the next relationship? Let's say there's great sex in the next relationship? Does it have to be within the lifestyle, or is that now a prerequisite going forward? Or can you be satisfied with great sex in a monogamous way, or has that door been completely blown wide open?

Speaker 2: 38:15

I haven't been in a relationship since I got divorced but, um, because I haven't been ready for one, I don't necessarily believe in monogamy anymore, because I don't believe that one person can be everything to another human. Although if I find somebody who I am comfortable enough with, that can be most of what I want for somebody. I could be monogamous again. But I don't know if that's possible and so if I am in a relationship again, I guess I have to kind of wade through that as it goes. But I don't think that I would want monogamy for either one of us, as because I can't, like I said, I have a tight, I can't give a great blow job.

Speaker 2: 38:53

Go find somebody who can Go find your you know your throat goat, because I can't do it, you know I'll watch half the time. I don't have to watch, you know. But I mean I don't want to limit anybody and I don't want anybody to limit me, as long as I know that when I go home at night I'm with that person who I know and I trust more than anybody who can do what I need. That's kind of where my head is at right now. The reality of it could change, but right now that's where my head's at. You know, I want them to have everything that they desire.

Speaker 1: 39:20

What advice do you have, for maybe there's a married woman out there listening that didn't realize necessarily that she was missing something, but kind of sees some of the things that you talked about and realizes maybe she is missing something. What advice would you give to her? Does she go out and try to explore swinging? Does she get her husband involved? Looking back, what avenues do you wish someone might have done for you? What advice, now that you've gotten to the extreme and back, would you give to them? How do you see this from happening to others?

Speaker 2: 39:57

I feel like if I would have had an open enough relationship for communication and would have been able to discuss toys or sleeves for his dick, or even toys that would make me cum, or anything like that, if I felt comfortable enough in that to be able to have those conversations, I think things could have been better. So I feel like you need to be able to talk to your partner about I'm missing these things. It's not because of you, you're not doing anything wrong, but I know that there could be more out there. So let's figure that out. Let's go to a um sex shop. Let's go to a theater. Let's go see what's out there. I don't have to touch anybody else and nobody has to touch me, but let's just see what's out there and see if it's something that we can incorporate um at home so that we can both feel the things that we want to feel and both experience the things that we want to feel. And both experience the things that we want to experience without placing blame, because it's not about blame. It's about the means to an end, if you will, but it's not about blame.

Speaker 2: 41:00

I don't want any relationship to ever feel bad. It makes someone feel bad because they can't do something. Just because they can't do something doesn't mean it can't be done, and I think that's the most important thing. So you have to be able to open up that line of communication. But if you're not comfortable in that relationship to open it up, then you don't need to be in that relationship. And that's a hard thing too, because I never felt comfortable having that conversation, um, and I shouldn't have been there because of that. But if it was, if I was comfortable enough to have those conversations, we probably possibly still be together, you know, but you have to be comfortable enough for that. So I guess my advice would be have these conversations. If you don't feel comfortable having them, then have that conversation with yourself on whether or not you still need to be there.

Speaker 1: 41:42

and if you want to be there, then you need to figure out a way to open up that, those avenues, so that you can both get to what you deserve I think the only thing I would add because I think your point is great find a couple things, go to a sex shop and try a couple things, pick up and say I don't know what this does, but let's figure out how it works. My only caveat is also be ready for failure, things that you don't like, but don't let it say well, we tried it, we're not going to do anything else again.

Speaker 1: 42:11

Right that that sucks, but hey, let's try this instead, yep, let's try this and feel out and kind of maybe have a date night once a month where you try, you go to the sex shop, you try something new, yeah yeah, because date night can mean many things.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Date night can be dinner and a movie, date night can be romance, date night can be mind-shattering orgasms. You know date night doesn't necessarily have to be the leave it to be for kind of date night, you know, and that's what a lot of people think when you're married, you know. But you can have date night at a theater, in a little booth where you're watching porn and people are watching you fuck in a corner. You know that can be a date night too. It just depends on you know how willing you are to go and how open you are in your relationship. And if you trust each other, you should be able to do most anything, I think.

Speaker 1: 42:56

Exactly Well, sage, thank you so much for coming on. It's been a true pleasure getting to know you and hearing your story, and I hope there's other women out here that hear it and kind of take a lesson from what you're talking about maybe not to the full extreme that you you took, but I think realizing that you can pause and ask for advice and feedback is can be a valuable thing and it could save a marriage or it couldn't make you realize that it's time to move on and and go from there. So thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker 2: 43:29

Thank you for having me.